Off topic:Bi-fuel

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Zastava128
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Re: Off topic:Bi-fuel

Post by Zastava128 »

Hello.
Those are all the regulators for CNG by T.A. Argentina using a mixer.
The first is for little engines like on three wheels.
Reductor Tuk Tuk - Tuk Tuk Reducer.pdf
(226.57 KiB) Downloaded 155 times
The second is for cars and it can be use in case of little room.
Reductor TA15 - TA15 Reducer.pdf
(230.2 KiB) Downloaded 172 times
The third looks like a BRC ME with little diffrences.
Reductores ST - ST Reducers.pdf
(234.87 KiB) Downloaded 173 times
The fourth is the bigger one.
ST80Plus.pdf
(171.31 KiB) Downloaded 170 times
That's the ME.
BRC ME.JPG
ME.JPG
I tried to collect as more infos as possible and in many languages.
BRC Turbo.JPG
Turbo.JPG
BRC Tecno M.JPG
Tecno M.JPG
All of them are suitable both for conversions on carburators and petrol injections.
There is another suitable for conversion with carburators only, there is a second solenoid valve. It seems to be a pneumatic version,I'll add it the next time.
Bye.
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Re: Off topic:Bi-fuel

Post by Zastava128 »

Hello.
The rebuilding guide for the BRC ME regulator.
Rev_BRCME_FI220008_2_en.pdf
(579.27 KiB) Downloaded 171 times
Rev_Rid_BRC-ME_FI22008_ML.pdf
(100.72 KiB) Downloaded 169 times
CNG.JPG
The ME regulator on a carburator car.
BRC ME-Switch Bristol.JPG
The same regulator on open loop injection cars.
BRC ME-open loop injection-Switch elegant.JPG
As usually the switches are different.There are too many names and models.
Now the BRC MP for carburators only.
BRC MP.JPG
MP.JPG
It should be a pneumatic version, there is one more little nipple in comparison with the ME.
Pneumatic version.JPG
There is another switch,the T100.
BRC MP-Switch T100.JPG
T100.JPG
Which is better for carburator cars? It's strange that it can be used for carburators only.
I don't know if they are still made because the ME gives more possibilities to be fitted.
Bye.
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Re: Off topic:Bi-fuel

Post by Zastava128 »

Hello.
BRC T100.JPG
Bristol and Elegant.
Bristol.JPG
BRC Bristol.JPG
Elegant.JPG
BRC Elegant.JPG
There are Samba,Asia,Brio and other switches.
Samba_Asia_Brio_TA01Z005_EN.pdf
(97.1 KiB) Downloaded 162 times
There's something about the VB A1 valve.
Serraggio_VBA1_FM909566_ML.pdf
(81.79 KiB) Downloaded 144 times
The VMA3/E also.
FM900003-1_VMA3E_ML.pdf
(148.41 KiB) Downloaded 134 times
Now two closed loop examples.
Tecno M-Closed loop-Blitz.JPG
Tecno M-Closed loop-Just.JPG
Bye.
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Re: Off topic:Bi-fuel

Post by Zastava128 »

Hello.
I think that it shows the right position for the pressure regulator.
Regulator.JPG
Then there are the mixers,now I think that there are all parts for a minimal conversion system.
There are some sorts of mixers.
Mixer for carburator-1.JPG
Mixer for carburator-2.JPG
Mixer for carburator-3.JPG
I don't know if the following mixers are suitable both for carburators and injections.
Mixers-1.JPG
Of course, there are mixers like the third used on carburators.
Then there are mixers for injections.
Mixers-2.JPG
The same sorts of mixers. The holes of the mixers at the third place are different. That should be the difference between a mixer for LPG and one for CNG. Now I don't think so owing the plastic mixers for Lada I saw.
I found an installation manual for a CNG system. The regulator looks like the OMVL R89/E.
CNG System Installation Manual.pdf
(1.31 MiB) Downloaded 135 times
There are are all electric parts for closed loop.
The starnge thing in this case is the use of a TPS or a MAP sensor for the stepper motor control unit.
I don't know if they are mappable,if there is a calibrating option for sensors,how the right position of the stepper is calculated...
I think to have found an example of a closed loop system on a car with a carburator.
Peugeot 505.jpg
Unfortunately you can't see any evidence of it by the picture.
I think to have found a sort of mechanical closed loop device, something working like the stepper motor.
Ecomax.jpg
Ecomax installation.jpg
Have you ever seen it or heard of it?
The package doesn't look new, is it still in production?
Bye.
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Re: Off topic:Bi-fuel

Post by Zastava128 »

Hello.
Some CNG mixers for Niva.
CNG mixer-Niva.jpg
CNG mixer-Lada Niva.jpg
Pro Gas Niva.jpg
Pro Gas Niva.jpg (11.26 KiB) Viewed 4310 times
Mixer on the carburator.jpg
Mixer 1.jpg
Mixer 2.jpg
They are different from the ones of previous catalogues, there isn't an individual mixer for each throttle.
The last one is by Pro Gas, there is their own web page,there is a list of mixers,some pictures of them but a pdf catalogue to download.
Another carburator swap.
Carburator 34-34.jpg
I don't know if the parts are from a Renault or a Peugeot.
He fit the mixer like on an injection car.
34-34 on the engine.jpg
Mixer 1.jpg
Mixer 2.jpg
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Re: Off topic:Bi-fuel

Post by Zastava128 »

Mixer 3.jpg
It takes a new air box.
Air box.jpg
Ford Escort 1.8 air box.jpg
Engine bay.jpg
Carburator and cover.jpg
Carburator and mixer.jpg
Carburator and air box.jpg
I think that it takes some calculations for a such conversion.
I found a similar example on the web page of a mixers factory.
Injection.JPG
Carburator.JPG
Those are their modules for custom mixers.
There's a pdf catalogue on their web page.
TECNO GNC.JPG
Bye.
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Re: Off topic:Bi-fuel

Post by Zastava128 »

Hello.
Perhaps it can explain the shape of that mixer for Niva.
CARESA LADA NIVA.jpg
There are many kits with a carburator and an adaptor on their catalogue.
The Tecno CNG catalogue of 2008.
Part I.pdf
(1.93 MiB) Downloaded 107 times
Part II.pdf
(1.21 MiB) Downloaded 134 times
Part III.pdf
(2.27 MiB) Downloaded 160 times
I found an advertisement of mixers.
Mixers-1.jpg
Mixers-2.jpg
Mixers-3.jpg
Mixers-4.jpg
They're cheap but according the ad they are for LPG and CNG.
Some pictures of ads are taken from manuals, I found the same pictures in a manual.
Another installation manual.
IM_LOVECO-4EU_EN_rev0.pdf
(1.77 MiB) Downloaded 173 times
Is there somebody using a mixer like that with a carburator?
Mixer.jpg
Did somebody try different mixers?
Bye.
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Re: Off topic:Bi-fuel

Post by Zastava128 »

Hello.
I found two regulators by Atiker that look like Lovato ones.
Atiker-Lovato RGV090.jpg
Atiker-Lovato RGE090.jpg
I don't know if they are the same really. If I need to know the differences I'll look for pictures of the parts.
I found the rebuilding guide of OMVL R90/E.
OMVL R90-E.pdf
(2.59 MiB) Downloaded 138 times
I'm thinking of regulators and mixers,it's difficult to understand what the best are.
Some mixers are described very well but in the catalogues they aren't all made the same way so I think that some models aren't the best and there aren't many options for some carburators.
I should learn the working way of all sorts of mixers.
The regulators for gas injectors are different from the ones for mixers.
I have a doubt about some injectors or a sort of injectors if they exist.
That's a conversion kit for three wells.
Kit 3 Wheeler.jpg
Kit 3 wheeler parts.JPG
It's a simple open loop kit for little engines.
There's a kit for gas injectors for little engines.
CTS.jpg
The control unit and its scheme doesn't look too different from the closed loop kit for mixers,there are injectors instead of a stepper motor.
By looking at the parts and the scheme I can't understand what the injectors are and what the map sensor is.
Sistema iny Stand Alone-Stad Alone inj System.pdf
(165.46 KiB) Downloaded 119 times
Those pictures show an LPG regulator for turbo engines.
SE81 Turbo-1.jpg
SE81 Turbo-2.jpg
SE81 Turbo-3.jpg
Bye.
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Re: Off topic:Bi-fuel

Post by Zastava128 »

Hello.
Other regulators.
Renzo Landi-1.jpg
Renzo Landi-2.jpg
Renzo Landi-3.jpg
Sometimes they use the same picture for all models on catalogues.
SE 81 SIC-A.jpg
Now The brazilian web page is updated so I don't think to find schemes and infos about old conversion kits.
Unfortunately I don't know what sort of mixer was used on that Niva with Ford Escort air box,its specs and if works fine.
I think that parts for a conversion like that can be found between OEM parts.
Vaz 2109-Lada Samara.jpg
Vaz 2109-Samara.jpg
Niva.jpeg
I looked for injected Lada mixers but their shape is different from the Pro Gas one.
Lada mixers.JPG
Mixers-1.JPG
Mixers-2.JPG
The first is for single point injection so we can be sure that it isn't suitable.
I'd like to know where and how to fit them at the least.
There are many sorts of mixers.
A mixer can be a restriction for the carburator.
A too big restriction make the engine running bad on petrol so that mixer shaped on a single throttle carbutator couldn't work fine on the two throttles Niva carburator.
That can be the first tip to select a mixer.
We can avoid the power loss running on LPG or CNG but the loss must be accetaple.
I can't do a comparison with diffrent mixers.
It takes datas about engine before the conversion and after that.
If we can't use a dynamometer or a rolling rod we must found another way.
I think that we can check the air fuel ratio.
If the power loss is little and the fuel ratio is always right the mixer and the regulator are good.
Any suggestions?
Bye.
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Re: Off topic:Bi-fuel

Post by kommando »

The ultimate would be to control the gas flow with a Oxygen sensor, I ran gas on a Fuel injected Audi and that controlled the gas using the Oxygen sensor but first you had to calibrate the mixer so that the Oxygen sensor was reading within its bounds, there was a red and green led and you adjusted the mixer input to get the rod led out and the green on. On a carburettor equipped car I can see the gas mix being well out of bounds so an Oxygen sensor would be good here even if you only used it for calibration.
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