DIY SECU-3 micro questions

Discussing SECU-3 hardware
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Zastava128
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Re: DIY SECU-3 micro questions

Post by Zastava128 »

Hello.
Thank you very much. That's very kind of you.
Unfortunately I'm a jackass.
I think there is no factory crank pulley for the conversion of old D.O.H.C.
The example I found was made by the same guy who shared those ignition maps on the polish forum.
Lancia Delta 1.6 HF engine block.jpg
It seems that the pulley is for two belts.
Maybe it's a little diffrent by the one on the 1608 block.
Trigger wheel 1.jpg
Trigger wheel 2.jpg
To use a factory trigger wheel from a later D.O.H.C engine you must swap all pulleys and belts if I'm not wrong.
Bye.
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Re: DIY SECU-3 micro questions

Post by 1608cc »

Another question to STC ;)

Did You try to use K-Line (ISO9141) protocol instead RS232 ?
I want to add L9637 interface, and I think software must be different then... Hardware won't be a problem.
L9637 is also good idea, because it has additional L-Line converter - it would control bootloader pin.

What do You think about it ?

Thanks :)
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Re: DIY SECU-3 micro questions

Post by STC »

Maybe in the future. I have a lot of other tasks for next months. I suggest you to develop k-line adapter which will convert SECU protocol to k-line protocol. Of course, not all parts of the SECU protocol can be converted into k-line.
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Re: DIY SECU-3 micro questions

Post by 1608cc »

Time is not a problem - if in the future K-Line will be add it is worth to wait :D
Last edited by 1608cc on 12 Jun 2019, 19:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DIY SECU-3 micro questions

Post by STC »

1608cc wrote:Time is not a problem - if in the future K-Line will be add it worth to wait :D
Which functions you want to be implemented via K-line interface? The problem is that SECU communicates using duplex mode (incomming and outcomming data sent simultaneously). As far as I known, K-line interface doesn't support duplex mode. It is relatively simple to implement just logging (collecting data from SECU).
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Re: DIY SECU-3 micro questions

Post by 1608cc »

STC wrote: Which functions you want to be implemented via K-line interface? The problem is that SECU communicates using duplex mode (incomming and outcomming data sent simultaneously). As far as I known, K-line interface doesn't support duplex mode. It is relatively simple to implement just logging (collecting data from SECU).
Yes You right, K-Line is Bi-Directional Half-Duplex bus - so in this case it won't work, if I connect interface straight to UART :|

I want all functions will be implemented - not only logging. So now only way is waiting for full support of K-Line interface in the future ;)
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Re: DIY SECU-3 micro questions

Post by STC »

Yes. And use interface IC like this https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/data-sheet/MC33660.pdf
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Re: DIY SECU-3 micro questions

Post by 1608cc »

STC wrote:Yes. And use interface IC like this https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/data-sheet/MC33660.pdf
I will use L9637 - it's better than MC33660, because it has additional L-Line comparator I will use as "bootmode switch"
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Re: DIY SECU-3 micro questions

Post by STC »

1608cc wrote:
STC wrote:Yes. And use interface IC like this https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/data-sheet/MC33660.pdf
I will use L9637 - it's better than MC33660, because it has additional L-Line comparator I will use as "bootmode switch"
Thank you for information.
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Re: DIY SECU-3 micro questions

Post by Zastava128 »

Hello.
What's the news? Unfortunately I can't understand what is the function of the future upgrade. Is there a way or an example to explain it easily?
Compliments to you all!
I found a previous version of that aftermarket ignition manual.
Fiat 124 DOHC engines.PNG
Probably that's better because there are values for the idle and at 2000 rpm, some values on the other chart were lower,maybe they didn't consider the static advance value.
There's something interesting, the gearshift retard, I think we also can use that tip.
We can use vacuum not to add advance only when you shift but we can add an ignition curve for release without the need of a limit switch.
Am I right or wrong?
We must find the right vacuum value, on release it's higher than at the idle.
I don't know if there are mechanical distributors with a pneumatic advance canister by the factory.
The max ignition advance on old DOHC engine can reach 38° on full load.
I looked for that value on some engines, you can find 37°,36°,34° and so on.
I found values for some engines,no ignition curve,that's all.
A 10° static advance and a 34° max advance for some Fiat 131 engines, 1,6l and 2,0l.
Engine 131 C3.000 Bore 84mm Stroke 71,5mm Capacity 1585cc C.R. 9:1 Carb. Weber 32 ADF53 or Solex C32 TEIE 10 Intake 5°/53° Exhaust 53°/5°
Engine 131 C4.000 Bore 84mm Stroke 90mm Capacity 1995cc C.R. 9:1 Carb. Weber 34 ADF54 Intake 5°/53° Exhaust 53°/5°
For the 1,3l engine the max adavnce is 38°
Engine 131 C1.000 Bore 78mm Stroke 71,5mm Capacity 1367cc C.R.8,9:1 Carb.Weber 32 ADF52 or Solex C32 TEIE 9 Intake 17°/37° Exhaust 53°/1°
Distributors unknown.
Fiat Abarth 124 Rally
Engine 132 AC 4.000 Bore 84mm Stroke 79,2mm Capacity 1756cc C.R.9,8:1 Carb. Weber 44 IDF 20 and 44 IDF 21 Intake 15°/55° Exhaust 55°/15°
Static adance 5°, max advance 31°.I found the ignition curve for that engine.
Fiat 124 Sport spider
Engine 132 AC.000 Bore 80mm stroke 79,2mm Capacity 1592cc C.R.9,8:1 Carb. Weber 34 DMS Intake 12°/53° Exhaust 52°/13°
Engine 132 AC1.000 Bore 84mm Stroke 79,2mm Capacity 1756cc C.R.9,8:1 Carb. Weber 34 DMS intake 15°/55° Exhaust 55°/15°
Static davance 10°,max advance 38°.Distributors unknown.
Fiat 124 Spider Europa
Engine 131 C3.031 Bore 84mm Stroke 90mm Capacity 1995cc C.R.8,2:1 Electronic injection Intake 5°/53° Exhaust 53°/5°
Staic advance 10°,max advance 28°.Distributors unknow.
Fiat 124 Spider Volumex
Engine 232.R.14 Bore 84mm Stroke 90mm Capacity 1995cc C.R.7,5:1 Carb. Weber 36 DCA 7/250 Intake 13°/39° Exhaust 37°/3°
Static advance 10°,max advance 35°, there's a 15° canister. What does it mean? A negative adance? -15° when on positive pressure that is a 20° max advance,35°-15°?
Distributors unknown.
On Fiat 132 max adance can be 34à or 38° I think 38° on cars with breaker points distributor and 34° on car with breakerless distributors.
I don't know,I'm not sure.Probabbly 38° for 1,6l engines and 34° for 2.0l engines.
I remeber that there must be 1,8l engines too,a t lest on early cars.
Engine 132 C.000 Bore 84mm Stroke 71,5mm Capacity 1585cc C.R.9:1 Carb. Weber 32 ADF 2/250 or Solex C32 TEIE 44 Intake 12°/53° Exhaust 54°/11°
Engine 132 C2.000 Bore 84mm Stroke 90mm Capacity 1995cc C.R.8.9:1 Carb. Weber 34 ADF 250 or Solex C34 TEIE1 Intake 15°/55° Exhaust 57°/13°
Static adavnce 10°,max adance 38° for 1,6 engines and 34° for 2,0l engines.
Dustributors unknown.
I found ignition curves by Ducellier.
Ducellier C4205-Fiat 124 spider-Fiat 125- Distibutor Ducellier 4392.PNG
Ducellier C4264-Fiat 124 sport-125berline-125S-Distributor Ducellier 4391.PNG
Advance degrees and revolutions are on the distributor so they must be doubled on the engine.You must add the static adance for the max advance.
No infos about engine codes or alternative distributor by other makers.
There is another ignition curve,probably it's for Fiat 132 and there can be an error on the catalogue because it's called 134.
525006.JPG
Ducellier 525006 A-Fiat 132.JPG
Ducellier C525006.PNG
The max advance also is 38° on old DOHC engines used on Lancia Beta.
Engine 828 B.000 Bore 84mm Stroke 71,5mm Capacity 1585cc C.R. 9,4:1 Carb.Weber 34 DAT 1 Intake 17°/37° Exhaust 48°/6°
Engine 828 B1.000 Bore 84mm Stroke 90mm Capacity 1995cc C.R.8,9:1 Carb.Weber 34 DAT 2 Intake 13°45° Exhaust 49°/9°
Static adance 10°,max advance 38°.
Breakerless distrubutor Bosch JGFU4-Z44-14483 A2.
There's a 1,3l engine too. I think it was used for Lancia only. I don't know if the adavnce is the same but the distributor is diffrent.
Engine 828 C3.000 Bore 76,1mm stroke 71,5mm Capacity 1301 cc C.R.8,9:1 Carb. Weber 32 DAT 3/250
Breakerless distributor Magneti Marelli SM 806 AX -764 R2 -764 P2
Now there are enough infos for nearly all DOHC engines.
Bye.
Magneti Marelli SM 806 AX.jpg
Breakerless distributor.jpg
SM 806 AX package.jpg
Box.jpg
I can't build any electronic kit,I can't program a CPU and so on.
If you like you may show something about your building.
Thank you very much.
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