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Off topic:Bi-fuel

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Zastava128

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Post 08 Jan 2019, 21:06

Re: Off topic:Bi-fuel

Hello.
Those are all the regulators for CNG by T.A. Argentina using a mixer.
The first is for little engines like on three wheels.
Reductor Tuk Tuk - Tuk Tuk Reducer.pdf
(226.57 KiB) Downloaded 5 times

The second is for cars and it can be use in case of little room.
Reductor TA15 - TA15 Reducer.pdf
(230.2 KiB) Downloaded 2 times

The third looks like a BRC ME with little diffrences.
Reductores ST - ST Reducers.pdf
(234.87 KiB) Downloaded 4 times

The fourth is the bigger one.
ST80Plus.pdf
(171.31 KiB) Downloaded 4 times

That's the ME.


I tried to collect as more infos as possible and in many languages.




All of them are suitable both for conversions on carburators and petrol injections.
There is another suitable for conversion with carburators only, there is a second solenoid valve. It seems to be a pneumatic version,I'll add it the next time.
Bye.
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Zastava128

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Post 09 Jan 2019, 00:08

Re: Off topic:Bi-fuel

Hello.
The rebuilding guide for the BRC ME regulator.
Rev_BRCME_FI220008_2_en.pdf
(579.27 KiB) Downloaded 4 times

Rev_Rid_BRC-ME_FI22008_ML.pdf
(100.72 KiB) Downloaded 3 times


The ME regulator on a carburator car.

The same regulator on open loop injection cars.

As usually the switches are different.There are too many names and models.
Now the BRC MP for carburators only.


It should be a pneumatic version, there is one more little nipple in comparison with the ME.

There is another switch,the T100.


Which is better for carburator cars? It's strange that it can be used for carburators only.
I don't know if they are still made because the ME gives more possibilities to be fitted.
Bye.
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Zastava128

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Post 10 Jan 2019, 02:06

Re: Off topic:Bi-fuel

Hello.

Bristol and Elegant.




There are Samba,Asia,Brio and other switches.
Samba_Asia_Brio_TA01Z005_EN.pdf
(97.1 KiB) Downloaded 2 times

There's something about the VB A1 valve.
Serraggio_VBA1_FM909566_ML.pdf
(81.79 KiB) Downloaded 3 times

The VMA3/E also.
FM900003-1_VMA3E_ML.pdf
(148.41 KiB) Downloaded 3 times

Now two closed loop examples.


Bye.
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Zastava128

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Post 11 Jan 2019, 22:14

Re: Off topic:Bi-fuel

Hello.
I think that it shows the right position for the pressure regulator.

Then there are the mixers,now I think that there are all parts for a minimal conversion system.
There are some sorts of mixers.



I don't know if the following mixers are suitable both for carburators and injections.

Of course, there are mixers like the third used on carburators.
Then there are mixers for injections.

The same sorts of mixers. The holes of the mixers at the third place are different. That should be the difference between a mixer for LPG and one for CNG. Now I don't think so owing the plastic mixers for Lada I saw.
I found an installation manual for a CNG system. The regulator looks like the OMVL R89/E.
CNG System Installation Manual.pdf
(1.31 MiB) Downloaded 3 times

There are are all electric parts for closed loop.
The starnge thing in this case is the use of a TPS or a MAP sensor for the stepper motor control unit.
I don't know if they are mappable,if there is a calibrating option for sensors,how the right position of the stepper is calculated...
I think to have found an example of a closed loop system on a car with a carburator.

Unfortunately you can't see any evidence of it by the picture.
I think to have found a sort of mechanical closed loop device, something working like the stepper motor.


Have you ever seen it or heard of it?
The package doesn't look new, is it still in production?
Bye.
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Zastava128

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Post 12 Jan 2019, 21:29

Re: Off topic:Bi-fuel

Hello.
Some CNG mixers for Niva.


Pro Gas Niva.jpg
Pro Gas Niva.jpg (11.26 KiB) Viewed 128 times




They are different from the ones of previous catalogues, there isn't an individual mixer for each throttle.
The last one is by Pro Gas, there is their own web page,there is a list of mixers,some pictures of them but a pdf catalogue to download.
Another carburator swap.

I don't know if the parts are from a Renault or a Peugeot.
He fit the mixer like on an injection car.


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Zastava128

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Post 12 Jan 2019, 21:59

Re: Off topic:Bi-fuel


It takes a new air box.






I think that it takes some calculations for a such conversion.
I found a similar example on the web page of a mixers factory.


Those are their modules for custom mixers.
There's a pdf catalogue on their web page.

Bye.
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Zastava128

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Post 13 Jan 2019, 23:35

Re: Off topic:Bi-fuel

Hello.
Perhaps it can explain the shape of that mixer for Niva.

There are many kits with a carburator and an adaptor on their catalogue.
The Tecno CNG catalogue of 2008.
Part I.pdf
(1.93 MiB) Downloaded 3 times

Part II.pdf
(1.21 MiB) Downloaded 3 times

Part III.pdf
(2.27 MiB) Downloaded 3 times

I found an advertisement of mixers.




They're cheap but according the ad they are for LPG and CNG.
Some pictures of ads are taken from manuals, I found the same pictures in a manual.
Another installation manual.
IM_LOVECO-4EU_EN_rev0.pdf
(1.77 MiB) Downloaded 3 times

Is there somebody using a mixer like that with a carburator?

Did somebody try different mixers?
Bye.
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Zastava128

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Post 15 Jan 2019, 04:03

Re: Off topic:Bi-fuel

Hello.
I found two regulators by Atiker that look like Lovato ones.


I don't know if they are the same really. If I need to know the differences I'll look for pictures of the parts.
I found the rebuilding guide of OMVL R90/E.
OMVL R90-E.pdf
(2.59 MiB) Downloaded 2 times

I'm thinking of regulators and mixers,it's difficult to understand what the best are.
Some mixers are described very well but in the catalogues they aren't all made the same way so I think that some models aren't the best and there aren't many options for some carburators.
I should learn the working way of all sorts of mixers.
The regulators for gas injectors are different from the ones for mixers.
I have a doubt about some injectors or a sort of injectors if they exist.
That's a conversion kit for three wells.


It's a simple open loop kit for little engines.
There's a kit for gas injectors for little engines.

The control unit and its scheme doesn't look too different from the closed loop kit for mixers,there are injectors instead of a stepper motor.
By looking at the parts and the scheme I can't understand what the injectors are and what the map sensor is.
Sistema iny Stand Alone-Stad Alone inj System.pdf
(165.46 KiB) Downloaded 2 times

Those pictures show an LPG regulator for turbo engines.



Bye.
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Zastava128

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Post 17 Jan 2019, 03:19

Re: Off topic:Bi-fuel

Hello.
Other regulators.



Sometimes they use the same picture for all models on catalogues.

Now The brazilian web page is updated so I don't think to find schemes and infos about old conversion kits.
Unfortunately I don't know what sort of mixer was used on that Niva with Ford Escort air box,its specs and if works fine.
I think that parts for a conversion like that can be found between OEM parts.



I looked for injected Lada mixers but their shape is different from the Pro Gas one.



The first is for single point injection so we can be sure that it isn't suitable.
I'd like to know where and how to fit them at the least.
There are many sorts of mixers.
A mixer can be a restriction for the carburator.
A too big restriction make the engine running bad on petrol so that mixer shaped on a single throttle carbutator couldn't work fine on the two throttles Niva carburator.
That can be the first tip to select a mixer.
We can avoid the power loss running on LPG or CNG but the loss must be accetaple.
I can't do a comparison with diffrent mixers.
It takes datas about engine before the conversion and after that.
If we can't use a dynamometer or a rolling rod we must found another way.
I think that we can check the air fuel ratio.
If the power loss is little and the fuel ratio is always right the mixer and the regulator are good.
Any suggestions?
Bye.
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kommando

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Post 17 Jan 2019, 16:12

Re: Off topic:Bi-fuel

The ultimate would be to control the gas flow with a Oxygen sensor, I ran gas on a Fuel injected Audi and that controlled the gas using the Oxygen sensor but first you had to calibrate the mixer so that the Oxygen sensor was reading within its bounds, there was a red and green led and you adjusted the mixer input to get the rod led out and the green on. On a carburettor equipped car I can see the gas mix being well out of bounds so an Oxygen sensor would be good here even if you only used it for calibration.
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